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Favorite Teams
Chumpy Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:18 pm
Like the favorite sets thread but for teams you or someone else has used that you've found to be your favorites. I'll start with 2 of mine.
This first one was an anti-metagame set around the beginning of gen. 4 when I was still in smogon. It brought me on and off the #1 spot on the ladder before I quit pokemon "forever" due to the flame wars caused by smogon tours (yeah, you can see how long "forever" lasted, am i rite?)
With that in mind, let's look at the line up.
The Lead:
Band Scizor:
Scizor @ Choice Band
252 attack, 252 HP, 4 speed
Adament Nature
Moves:
Bullet Punch
Pursuit
Super Power
U-Turn
"What on earth?" is a fairly logical response to seeing a banded scizor lead. At the time I made this team, I thought stealth rock was a waste of a team slot, so wynaut? The most common leads at the time were azelf (which wasn't carrying fire blast as a standard yet, in fact, this was very rare) and aerodactyl. Both of which scizor could 2HKO pretty easily. Scizor being the most popular pokemon at the time, i tried this out and instantly fell in love with it's anti-metagame capabilities (myself being a very anti-metagame oriented player in general).
The lure:
Heatran @ Leftovers
252 HP, 252 SpAtk, 4 speed
Modest Nature
Moves:
Subsitute
Earth Power
HP Ice/HP Grass/HP Electric/Dragon Pulse
Fire Blast
Amazing team mate with scizor, getting a flash fire boost from scizor. At the time where scarf heatran was all the buzz, being the first popular scarfer in exsistence, i chose to use subsitute to bring in lures such as garchomp, salamence, other heatran. Salamence and Garchomp were SUCH a menace during this time (latias was still uber and so the scarfchomp-ddmence combo was abused similarly to how lati-mence became abused later), . HP Ice was originally the move of choice as the main pokemon it took out were dragons or other heatrans. At a later point when heatran's popularity fell. I eschewed earth power for hp electric to take out gyara's. The extra moves constantly shifted throughout the 3 months i played gen 4 pokemon to lure and kill the biggest threats of the new metagame. At one point i even ran this baby without fire blast.
The Utility:
Celebi @ Leftovers
252 HP, 200 Def, 52 SpAtk
Bold Nature
Calm Mind
HP Ice
Grass Knot
Recover
Tanks those set up dragons like a boss and strikes them down with HP ice, making a great dragon check if i was unable to lure them in with heatran. Grass knot was for the stab and handling bulky waters which as I was almost done building this team, I realized would wipe the floor with me if I didn't stick a counter on. More importantly, celebi had perfect type synergy with heatran, being able to switch into water, fighting and ground type pokemon with relative impunity (only bounce gyarados was a threat to him).
The Revenge killer:
Flygon @ Choice Scarf
252 attack, 252 speed, 4 HP
Jolly Nature
Moves:
Earthquake
Outrage
Fire Blast/Thunderpunch
U-turn
At a time when most Salamences were running adamant nature (one must remember we were coming out of gen 3 which was definitely NOT a speed oriented metagame, and the extra power was considered very important for KOing those bulky waters, which were considered mence's only true counters), scarfgon was the perfect candidate (remember, no scarf latias yet). Most players considered choice scarf at the time to be a silly gimmick that worked with 3 pokemon, tyranitar, heatran and jirachi. I wish I could say I, in my infinite wisdom, realized flygon's potential as a menace with a scarf at a time where it had dropped down to BL, but it was actually a friend of mine who showed me this menace of a set. I later dropped fire blast (i had heatran for scizors and stall was seldom used at a time where garchomp and salamence were tearing up the metagame) for thunder punch to handle the rising in popularity gyarados, which wrecked utter havoc on my team.
The Sweeper:
Metagross @Life Orb
252 Attack, 252 speed, 4 HP
Nature Adamant
Moves:
Agility
Meteor Mash
Zen Headbutt
Earthquake
In such an offensively set metagame, agiligross, while being far from revolutionary, was a seriously underrated beast. Meteor mash OHKO'd pretty much every commonly used mon that didn't resist it. The power behind it was unreal. About the only offensive pokemon that could survive it was garchomp. Zen Headbutt was for dual stab and hit pokemon such as gyarados and rotom (who could be a serious menace to the rest of my team, particularly scarfed rotom-h). Zen Headbutt was occasionally switched out for ice punch to hit non-scarfed garchomps and gliscors (which were while far from popular were definitely a threat to be aware of). Earthquake was there to kill those steels, who resisted both of my STABs.
The Glue:
Gengar @ Focus Sash/Life orb/Leftovers
252 speed, 252 spatk, 4 speed
Timid nature
Moves:
Hypnosis
Will-O-Wisp
Thunderbolt
HP ice
"What the fuck?" is a fairly logical response to this set. Status moves on gengar? A closer look at the situation at the time makes this set make a lot more sense. In generation three, the dual status spreading gengar was its flagship set, as boltbeam coverage devastated lots of teams offensively while dual status spreading really fucked up a lot of gengar's counters. Before HG/SS, Hypnosis still had 70% accuracy. This gengar had a single goal, fuck up everything in it's path, and boy did it do a great job at that. Will-o-Wisp anihlated the largely physical offense based metagame at the time, hypnosis was guaranteed to shut down a gengar counter that wasn't effected by will-o-wisp, and 110 speed with a timid nature allowed gengar to outspeed every commonly used pokemon that wasn't scarfed or named azelf/starmie. The boltbeam coverage still did it great in a game centered around steels, dragons and bulky waters, hitting 2 out of the three very hard and most steel types not appreciating tbolt (particularly skarmory). This gengar was probably the MVP of the team, crippling and killing mons left and right iwth that high speed and ability to shut down a counter with a will-o-wisp or hypnosis. Focus sash at first seemed like the dream item for gengar until i realized hwo popular stealth rock was, and i eventualyl settled on leftovers, which allowed gengar to stick around a LOT longer (especially with all those free turns it was getting with switch ins thanks to typing and statusing mons).
Some of you might recognize this team as very similar to the one i used my first couple of times on pokemonexperte. The main difference being my gengar was life orbed, celebi more offensively inclined and metagross replaced with baton passing nasty plot togekiss. Despite what this team was able to accomplish (about a 95% winning percentage in its prime against the garchomp-mence/steel oriented metagame), there's a couple of big flaws that stick out, especially if I had continued to use this team during the lati-mence era.
The first one is rotom, which could seriously crush everything not named heatran (and even then, rotom-W had a few choice words with heatran). Depending on the type of rotom, i could handle bulkier ones with CM celebi or heatran, and in emergencies hit non-scarfed rotom with a gengar hypnosis, but rotom had serious potential to tear my team to pieces, particularly bulky rotom-w.
The biggest flaw is the teams' inability to handle stall, which I, along with most prominent competitive players at the time, considered to be a dead play style in the new offensive metagame. Of course, this would change after I left with IPL and Obi's groundbreaking stall teams as they finally found a way to win against the lati-mence teams of the time with stall.
But back on topic, at the time I considered stall a dead style of play. However, if stall had been even remotely prominent, it would likely have destroyed me. My best chance at beating stall was celebi, which could handle most things stall had to throw at it except for of course, the famous whore of all stall teams blissey. Skarm bliss would have lulzed right in my face. Of course, in my ammended version i used on pokemonexperte, nasty plot togekiss quickly passed on to the ammended life orb gengar who carved any stall team a new anus at +6 special attack easily OHKOing blissey with focus blast and everything else with the appropriate move (in fact, gengar OHKO'd standard blissey at +4 spatk).
The final weakness was one that eventually made me stop using this team on pokemonexperte, and that is rain teams. Celebi was the only thing that had any chance of stopping the menace. It could set up on something like bronzong or scizor (PRAY TO GOD IT DOESN'T HAVE U-TURN) and hope to tank it's way through the entire team (again, PRAY TO GOD kingdra doesn't have signal beam). Although celebi allowed me to beat the rain teams of the early, still getting it's feet wet (pun intended) rain teams of my smogon time in most situations, it was FAR from a rain team counter.
And so was my team. It didn't crush people and give me fancy 6-0 wins. It didn't utterly sweep and confuse people with unheard of movesets, nor did it win with any amazing troll factors. What it lacked in wow factor it made up with by simple effficiency. It covered all the different (mostly garchomp-salamence) based ways people were trying to win games. It won it's games through well built defensive typings and the ability to mess up everything that was thrown at it (Gengar was particularly helpful in these reguards).
This first one was an anti-metagame set around the beginning of gen. 4 when I was still in smogon. It brought me on and off the #1 spot on the ladder before I quit pokemon "forever" due to the flame wars caused by smogon tours (yeah, you can see how long "forever" lasted, am i rite?)
With that in mind, let's look at the line up.
The Lead:
Band Scizor:
Scizor @ Choice Band
252 attack, 252 HP, 4 speed
Adament Nature
Moves:
Bullet Punch
Pursuit
Super Power
U-Turn
"What on earth?" is a fairly logical response to seeing a banded scizor lead. At the time I made this team, I thought stealth rock was a waste of a team slot, so wynaut? The most common leads at the time were azelf (which wasn't carrying fire blast as a standard yet, in fact, this was very rare) and aerodactyl. Both of which scizor could 2HKO pretty easily. Scizor being the most popular pokemon at the time, i tried this out and instantly fell in love with it's anti-metagame capabilities (myself being a very anti-metagame oriented player in general).
The lure:
Heatran @ Leftovers
252 HP, 252 SpAtk, 4 speed
Modest Nature
Moves:
Subsitute
Earth Power
HP Ice/HP Grass/HP Electric/Dragon Pulse
Fire Blast
Amazing team mate with scizor, getting a flash fire boost from scizor. At the time where scarf heatran was all the buzz, being the first popular scarfer in exsistence, i chose to use subsitute to bring in lures such as garchomp, salamence, other heatran. Salamence and Garchomp were SUCH a menace during this time (latias was still uber and so the scarfchomp-ddmence combo was abused similarly to how lati-mence became abused later), . HP Ice was originally the move of choice as the main pokemon it took out were dragons or other heatrans. At a later point when heatran's popularity fell. I eschewed earth power for hp electric to take out gyara's. The extra moves constantly shifted throughout the 3 months i played gen 4 pokemon to lure and kill the biggest threats of the new metagame. At one point i even ran this baby without fire blast.
The Utility:
Celebi @ Leftovers
252 HP, 200 Def, 52 SpAtk
Bold Nature
Calm Mind
HP Ice
Grass Knot
Recover
Tanks those set up dragons like a boss and strikes them down with HP ice, making a great dragon check if i was unable to lure them in with heatran. Grass knot was for the stab and handling bulky waters which as I was almost done building this team, I realized would wipe the floor with me if I didn't stick a counter on. More importantly, celebi had perfect type synergy with heatran, being able to switch into water, fighting and ground type pokemon with relative impunity (only bounce gyarados was a threat to him).
The Revenge killer:
Flygon @ Choice Scarf
252 attack, 252 speed, 4 HP
Jolly Nature
Moves:
Earthquake
Outrage
Fire Blast/Thunderpunch
U-turn
At a time when most Salamences were running adamant nature (one must remember we were coming out of gen 3 which was definitely NOT a speed oriented metagame, and the extra power was considered very important for KOing those bulky waters, which were considered mence's only true counters), scarfgon was the perfect candidate (remember, no scarf latias yet). Most players considered choice scarf at the time to be a silly gimmick that worked with 3 pokemon, tyranitar, heatran and jirachi. I wish I could say I, in my infinite wisdom, realized flygon's potential as a menace with a scarf at a time where it had dropped down to BL, but it was actually a friend of mine who showed me this menace of a set. I later dropped fire blast (i had heatran for scizors and stall was seldom used at a time where garchomp and salamence were tearing up the metagame) for thunder punch to handle the rising in popularity gyarados, which wrecked utter havoc on my team.
The Sweeper:
Metagross @Life Orb
252 Attack, 252 speed, 4 HP
Nature Adamant
Moves:
Agility
Meteor Mash
Zen Headbutt
Earthquake
In such an offensively set metagame, agiligross, while being far from revolutionary, was a seriously underrated beast. Meteor mash OHKO'd pretty much every commonly used mon that didn't resist it. The power behind it was unreal. About the only offensive pokemon that could survive it was garchomp. Zen Headbutt was for dual stab and hit pokemon such as gyarados and rotom (who could be a serious menace to the rest of my team, particularly scarfed rotom-h). Zen Headbutt was occasionally switched out for ice punch to hit non-scarfed garchomps and gliscors (which were while far from popular were definitely a threat to be aware of). Earthquake was there to kill those steels, who resisted both of my STABs.
The Glue:
Gengar @ Focus Sash/Life orb/Leftovers
252 speed, 252 spatk, 4 speed
Timid nature
Moves:
Hypnosis
Will-O-Wisp
Thunderbolt
HP ice
"What the fuck?" is a fairly logical response to this set. Status moves on gengar? A closer look at the situation at the time makes this set make a lot more sense. In generation three, the dual status spreading gengar was its flagship set, as boltbeam coverage devastated lots of teams offensively while dual status spreading really fucked up a lot of gengar's counters. Before HG/SS, Hypnosis still had 70% accuracy. This gengar had a single goal, fuck up everything in it's path, and boy did it do a great job at that. Will-o-Wisp anihlated the largely physical offense based metagame at the time, hypnosis was guaranteed to shut down a gengar counter that wasn't effected by will-o-wisp, and 110 speed with a timid nature allowed gengar to outspeed every commonly used pokemon that wasn't scarfed or named azelf/starmie. The boltbeam coverage still did it great in a game centered around steels, dragons and bulky waters, hitting 2 out of the three very hard and most steel types not appreciating tbolt (particularly skarmory). This gengar was probably the MVP of the team, crippling and killing mons left and right iwth that high speed and ability to shut down a counter with a will-o-wisp or hypnosis. Focus sash at first seemed like the dream item for gengar until i realized hwo popular stealth rock was, and i eventualyl settled on leftovers, which allowed gengar to stick around a LOT longer (especially with all those free turns it was getting with switch ins thanks to typing and statusing mons).
Some of you might recognize this team as very similar to the one i used my first couple of times on pokemonexperte. The main difference being my gengar was life orbed, celebi more offensively inclined and metagross replaced with baton passing nasty plot togekiss. Despite what this team was able to accomplish (about a 95% winning percentage in its prime against the garchomp-mence/steel oriented metagame), there's a couple of big flaws that stick out, especially if I had continued to use this team during the lati-mence era.
The first one is rotom, which could seriously crush everything not named heatran (and even then, rotom-W had a few choice words with heatran). Depending on the type of rotom, i could handle bulkier ones with CM celebi or heatran, and in emergencies hit non-scarfed rotom with a gengar hypnosis, but rotom had serious potential to tear my team to pieces, particularly bulky rotom-w.
The biggest flaw is the teams' inability to handle stall, which I, along with most prominent competitive players at the time, considered to be a dead play style in the new offensive metagame. Of course, this would change after I left with IPL and Obi's groundbreaking stall teams as they finally found a way to win against the lati-mence teams of the time with stall.
But back on topic, at the time I considered stall a dead style of play. However, if stall had been even remotely prominent, it would likely have destroyed me. My best chance at beating stall was celebi, which could handle most things stall had to throw at it except for of course, the famous whore of all stall teams blissey. Skarm bliss would have lulzed right in my face. Of course, in my ammended version i used on pokemonexperte, nasty plot togekiss quickly passed on to the ammended life orb gengar who carved any stall team a new anus at +6 special attack easily OHKOing blissey with focus blast and everything else with the appropriate move (in fact, gengar OHKO'd standard blissey at +4 spatk).
The final weakness was one that eventually made me stop using this team on pokemonexperte, and that is rain teams. Celebi was the only thing that had any chance of stopping the menace. It could set up on something like bronzong or scizor (PRAY TO GOD IT DOESN'T HAVE U-TURN) and hope to tank it's way through the entire team (again, PRAY TO GOD kingdra doesn't have signal beam). Although celebi allowed me to beat the rain teams of the early, still getting it's feet wet (pun intended) rain teams of my smogon time in most situations, it was FAR from a rain team counter.
And so was my team. It didn't crush people and give me fancy 6-0 wins. It didn't utterly sweep and confuse people with unheard of movesets, nor did it win with any amazing troll factors. What it lacked in wow factor it made up with by simple effficiency. It covered all the different (mostly garchomp-salamence) based ways people were trying to win games. It won it's games through well built defensive typings and the ability to mess up everything that was thrown at it (Gengar was particularly helpful in these reguards).
Last edited by Chumpy on Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
Chumpy- Moderator
- Posts : 12
Join date : 2011-12-03
Psuedo lati-mence
Chumpy Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:40 pm
It was a hot...hot summer afternoon. Time was wasted by many a pokemon player on PL. On this day shuckie absolutely crushed the team I was using at the time with her 25 turns stall team. It lead me to realize I needed a solid answer to the stall style which I then realized had become the most popular battle style on the server. The first team that came out was my pure anti-stall crocune/britscor based team. Although the team was fairly successful, shuckie managed to beat it again through her double intimidate set up of hitmontop and gyarados. Then God 6-0'd my anti-stall team with his stall team, and I realized I needed a new solution to this new metagame on PL. As I thought about why stall had become so popular, I thought back to the days when lati-mence prevented virtually all stall from being remotely effective. Then I realized, the OU metagame still had all the tools it needed to create an effective psueo-latimence team. In less than 30 minutes, I had built the greatest team I had ever crafted, and perhaps one of, if not the best teams pokemonexperte had ever seen on OU.
The Lead:
Metagross @ Occa Berry
252 HP, 240 Attack, 12 speed
Adamant nature
Moves:
Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Bullet punch
Explosion
As the team was basically finished needing only a lead, metagross was the obvious answer for my team. Able to almost always set up rocks or kill an opposing pokemon, often times both. The only leads of concern are azelf, roserade and smeargle. Azelf is within kill range of scarfgon uturn after taking a metagross bullet punch, and is 3HKO'd by metagross bullet punch, meaning with proper prediction i can end up in a solid position despite an unfavorable lead matchup. Roserade setting up on metagross is of no concern, as roserade can't carry both sleep powder and normal spikes, and literally my entire team is immune to poison spikes. Bullet punch will obviously do a reasonable enough damage to a smeargle lead allowing azelf to come in and KO the bastard. Speaking of azelf, it can OHKO machamp leads thanks to life orb, meaning i don't need to worry if metagross is unable to explode on machamp.
The Utility:
Azelf @ Life Orb
252 Spatk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Naive/Timid Nature
Moves:
Explosion
Grass Knot
Thunderbolt/Flamethrower
Psychic
Can easily sweep weakened teams. Great mon to send in after metagross explodes as it beats most offensive pokemon one on one and can explode on any unfavorable matchup without losing offensive momentum. Being able to OHKO machamp is vital so that I don't have to lose a second pokemon if metagross is unable to explode on it. Grass knot may not have the greatest coverage, but swampert is a serious menace to the rest of the team, and so it's necessary to have in order to have SOMETHING that can handle it.
The Support:
Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
252 speed, 252 special attack, 4 HP
Nature Naive
Moves:
Thunderbolt
Flash Cannon
HP Fire/Ice
Explosion
As stated above, the team is psuedo lati-mence. Magnezone is obviously needed to get guaranteed kills on pokemon that's presence would normally make a dragonite (my mence replacement) sweep near impossible. The main suspects to magnezone's wrath being scizor and skarmory. Scarf is chosen because it allows magnezone to handle SD lucario, who would otherwise have a field day with my team.
Psuedo-latias:
Flygon @ Choice Scarf
252 speed, 252 attack, 4 HP
Jolly nature
Moves:
Outrage
Earthquake
Thunderpunch
U-Turn
Pretty self explanatory. Doesn't do the job as well as latias would, but it does good enough. Thunderpunch handles bulky gyara who would sweep pretty easily with one turn of set up without thunderpunch's presence. The main downside is I can't haphazardly toss around flygon's outrages in the way i could latias' draco meteors.
Psuedo-mence:
Dragonite @ Life orb
252 attack, 252 speed, 4 HP
Adamant nature
Moves:
Dragon Dance
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Extremespeed
This was my largest concern. Could dragonite fill salamence's shoes? Team testing proved that not only did dragonite fill salamence's shoes, to my surprise, it did a BETTER job than salamence was ever able to. Dragonite's extremespeed was the groundbreaking factor. In combination with Lucario's exremespeed (see below), it gave me emergency revenge killing utility, making this team virtually unsweepable. Additionally, i rarely if ever found myself in a situation where Dragonite failed in a situation salamence would have succeeded. Dragon Claw was the obvious choice for me, as it's only real purpose is muscling it's way through bulky waters which dragonite wouldn't OHKO with outrage anyway.
The Glue:
Lucario @Life Orb
252 attack, 252 speed, 4 HP
Adamant Nature
Moves:
Swords Dance
Close Combat
Extremespeed
Crunch
Originally the glue of this team was choice band scizor, but a few test runs clearly showed scizor as the weak link. I needed another sweeper. Lucario quickly distinguished itself in my mind as the perfect fit. It's power allowed it to muscle it's away through mons such as skarmory, bulky rotom and bulky waters. It's typing was an awesome pairing with dragonite's, and if something like scarfed heatran or magnezone stopped my lucario sweep, dragonite had an opportunity to set up and sweep. On the flip side of the coin, if dragonite is taken down by something like scarf starmie or flygon, it just gives lucario a chance to set up for the sweep. It's a perfect partnership. But there's yet ANOTHER reason why lucario and dragonite work so wonderfully together on the team. The powerful dual extremespeed's make this team the closest i've ever seen to being completely unsweepable. It doesn't matter if gyarados gets to +6 with 50% health left. Dragonite and Luke will take it down. Kingdra gets rain dance set up, dragonite and are gonna stop it (presuming i played intelligently and hit kingdra before hand).
Overview:
This is the team I am most proud of creating. I've had it for about 6 months now and it STILL has a very high winning percentage despite the fact that virtually every player on PL knows what is on it. It managed to win all 8 badges and sweep the elite 4 in the most recent incarnation of the unknown league and i successfully defended my championship of the unknown league primarily with this team until the league's death. This was despite the fact virtually every player I faced with this team had played it enough times to have a pretty good idea of everything that was on the team. This team almost single handedly made dragonite a popular pokemon again.
There's one key reason this team was so successful. It's virtually uncounterable. With 3 sets of prioirty and 3 explosions, it can't be swept and can't be walled by a single pokemon. Further, it's play style is so simple and so effective it minimizes the prediction required to win.
Despite the seemingly perfect team, there are a couple of cracks that can be exploited. The most prominent of these is a defensive weakness towards SD weavile carrying ice shard if stealth rock isn't down and metagross has already exploded. Without stealth rock, lucario can't handle weavile with extreme speed, and if weavile sets up, it's good game. Weavile outspeeds my scarf magnezone and bypasses dragonite's priority and flygon's higher speed with an ice shard that OHKO's. Weavile can effectivelely defeat 4 out of 6 of the pokemon on my team at full health without any set up (lucario, dragonite, flygon and azelf). Magnezone can barely take a life orb unboosted brick break or low kick at full health and retaliate with flash cannon, but if set up, weavile can now sweep 5/6ths of my team,the only mon that effectively counters it being my lead which is more often than not dead by the time weavile will set up. However, all hope is not lost against this mon, lucario can still kill it (after weavile takes LO damage once) with extreme speed as long as stealth rock is up. Because of this, magnezones ability to beat weavile while it's unboosted, and metagross straight up beating it, weavile isn't the perfect counter to the team as it may appear at first glance. Luckily, weavile is a very rarely seen in today's OU metagame.
The next crack is an inability of any pokemon on the team (with the exception of azelf with luck on its side) to beat dusknoir 1 on 1. It's ghost typing prevents my 3 explosion strategy from blasting through it like i can with other problematic pokemon. However, with dusknoir's lack of reliable recovery, usually after one mon brings it downt o KO range, dusknoir will usually prove to be little more than a speed bump.
Rotom presents some unique challenges to the team, particularly if I don't know what set it is yet. On the bulky side, rotom's challenge is similar to dusknoir's but with a much lesser extent due to it being less bulky than rotom. However, if i predict bulky rotom and it's an offensive variant (particularly specs or scarf), then I lose a pokemon and usually offensive momentum. However, because of it's statistical short comings, despite it's unpredictability and problematic typing, it is unable to truly counter my team.
Cresselia is definitely a troubling pokemon late game for my team. Lucario must cripple itself in order to set up on and KO it. Cresselia must either be exploded on (and it survives a magnezone explosion and sometimes azelf's, which is problematic) or i must cripple lucario in order to take it down. However, cress is a rarely used pokemon that can potentially destroy my team but i can usually work my way around it, putting it into a defensive counter category similar to weavile but less effective. This is especially true considering that if cress is found on a stall or bulky team (often the case) i often times still have metagross to explode on it, unlike in an offensive team with weavile.
Despite the several weaknesses listed, these are either situations rarely seen, such as weavile or cress, or situation easily worked around, such as rotom and dusknoir. Overall, the team is one that is easy to use, very effective, and very consistent. In the end, it allowed me to have an over 120 (i forget the exactly number) win streak at the peak of my usage of this team, and as mentioned above, it still works today despite most PL players knowing the general make of the team.
The Lead:
Metagross @ Occa Berry
252 HP, 240 Attack, 12 speed
Adamant nature
Moves:
Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Bullet punch
Explosion
As the team was basically finished needing only a lead, metagross was the obvious answer for my team. Able to almost always set up rocks or kill an opposing pokemon, often times both. The only leads of concern are azelf, roserade and smeargle. Azelf is within kill range of scarfgon uturn after taking a metagross bullet punch, and is 3HKO'd by metagross bullet punch, meaning with proper prediction i can end up in a solid position despite an unfavorable lead matchup. Roserade setting up on metagross is of no concern, as roserade can't carry both sleep powder and normal spikes, and literally my entire team is immune to poison spikes. Bullet punch will obviously do a reasonable enough damage to a smeargle lead allowing azelf to come in and KO the bastard. Speaking of azelf, it can OHKO machamp leads thanks to life orb, meaning i don't need to worry if metagross is unable to explode on machamp.
The Utility:
Azelf @ Life Orb
252 Spatk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Naive/Timid Nature
Moves:
Explosion
Grass Knot
Thunderbolt/Flamethrower
Psychic
Can easily sweep weakened teams. Great mon to send in after metagross explodes as it beats most offensive pokemon one on one and can explode on any unfavorable matchup without losing offensive momentum. Being able to OHKO machamp is vital so that I don't have to lose a second pokemon if metagross is unable to explode on it. Grass knot may not have the greatest coverage, but swampert is a serious menace to the rest of the team, and so it's necessary to have in order to have SOMETHING that can handle it.
The Support:
Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
252 speed, 252 special attack, 4 HP
Nature Naive
Moves:
Thunderbolt
Flash Cannon
HP Fire/Ice
Explosion
As stated above, the team is psuedo lati-mence. Magnezone is obviously needed to get guaranteed kills on pokemon that's presence would normally make a dragonite (my mence replacement) sweep near impossible. The main suspects to magnezone's wrath being scizor and skarmory. Scarf is chosen because it allows magnezone to handle SD lucario, who would otherwise have a field day with my team.
Psuedo-latias:
Flygon @ Choice Scarf
252 speed, 252 attack, 4 HP
Jolly nature
Moves:
Outrage
Earthquake
Thunderpunch
U-Turn
Pretty self explanatory. Doesn't do the job as well as latias would, but it does good enough. Thunderpunch handles bulky gyara who would sweep pretty easily with one turn of set up without thunderpunch's presence. The main downside is I can't haphazardly toss around flygon's outrages in the way i could latias' draco meteors.
Psuedo-mence:
Dragonite @ Life orb
252 attack, 252 speed, 4 HP
Adamant nature
Moves:
Dragon Dance
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Extremespeed
This was my largest concern. Could dragonite fill salamence's shoes? Team testing proved that not only did dragonite fill salamence's shoes, to my surprise, it did a BETTER job than salamence was ever able to. Dragonite's extremespeed was the groundbreaking factor. In combination with Lucario's exremespeed (see below), it gave me emergency revenge killing utility, making this team virtually unsweepable. Additionally, i rarely if ever found myself in a situation where Dragonite failed in a situation salamence would have succeeded. Dragon Claw was the obvious choice for me, as it's only real purpose is muscling it's way through bulky waters which dragonite wouldn't OHKO with outrage anyway.
The Glue:
Lucario @Life Orb
252 attack, 252 speed, 4 HP
Adamant Nature
Moves:
Swords Dance
Close Combat
Extremespeed
Crunch
Originally the glue of this team was choice band scizor, but a few test runs clearly showed scizor as the weak link. I needed another sweeper. Lucario quickly distinguished itself in my mind as the perfect fit. It's power allowed it to muscle it's away through mons such as skarmory, bulky rotom and bulky waters. It's typing was an awesome pairing with dragonite's, and if something like scarfed heatran or magnezone stopped my lucario sweep, dragonite had an opportunity to set up and sweep. On the flip side of the coin, if dragonite is taken down by something like scarf starmie or flygon, it just gives lucario a chance to set up for the sweep. It's a perfect partnership. But there's yet ANOTHER reason why lucario and dragonite work so wonderfully together on the team. The powerful dual extremespeed's make this team the closest i've ever seen to being completely unsweepable. It doesn't matter if gyarados gets to +6 with 50% health left. Dragonite and Luke will take it down. Kingdra gets rain dance set up, dragonite and are gonna stop it (presuming i played intelligently and hit kingdra before hand).
Overview:
This is the team I am most proud of creating. I've had it for about 6 months now and it STILL has a very high winning percentage despite the fact that virtually every player on PL knows what is on it. It managed to win all 8 badges and sweep the elite 4 in the most recent incarnation of the unknown league and i successfully defended my championship of the unknown league primarily with this team until the league's death. This was despite the fact virtually every player I faced with this team had played it enough times to have a pretty good idea of everything that was on the team. This team almost single handedly made dragonite a popular pokemon again.
There's one key reason this team was so successful. It's virtually uncounterable. With 3 sets of prioirty and 3 explosions, it can't be swept and can't be walled by a single pokemon. Further, it's play style is so simple and so effective it minimizes the prediction required to win.
Despite the seemingly perfect team, there are a couple of cracks that can be exploited. The most prominent of these is a defensive weakness towards SD weavile carrying ice shard if stealth rock isn't down and metagross has already exploded. Without stealth rock, lucario can't handle weavile with extreme speed, and if weavile sets up, it's good game. Weavile outspeeds my scarf magnezone and bypasses dragonite's priority and flygon's higher speed with an ice shard that OHKO's. Weavile can effectivelely defeat 4 out of 6 of the pokemon on my team at full health without any set up (lucario, dragonite, flygon and azelf). Magnezone can barely take a life orb unboosted brick break or low kick at full health and retaliate with flash cannon, but if set up, weavile can now sweep 5/6ths of my team,the only mon that effectively counters it being my lead which is more often than not dead by the time weavile will set up. However, all hope is not lost against this mon, lucario can still kill it (after weavile takes LO damage once) with extreme speed as long as stealth rock is up. Because of this, magnezones ability to beat weavile while it's unboosted, and metagross straight up beating it, weavile isn't the perfect counter to the team as it may appear at first glance. Luckily, weavile is a very rarely seen in today's OU metagame.
The next crack is an inability of any pokemon on the team (with the exception of azelf with luck on its side) to beat dusknoir 1 on 1. It's ghost typing prevents my 3 explosion strategy from blasting through it like i can with other problematic pokemon. However, with dusknoir's lack of reliable recovery, usually after one mon brings it downt o KO range, dusknoir will usually prove to be little more than a speed bump.
Rotom presents some unique challenges to the team, particularly if I don't know what set it is yet. On the bulky side, rotom's challenge is similar to dusknoir's but with a much lesser extent due to it being less bulky than rotom. However, if i predict bulky rotom and it's an offensive variant (particularly specs or scarf), then I lose a pokemon and usually offensive momentum. However, because of it's statistical short comings, despite it's unpredictability and problematic typing, it is unable to truly counter my team.
Cresselia is definitely a troubling pokemon late game for my team. Lucario must cripple itself in order to set up on and KO it. Cresselia must either be exploded on (and it survives a magnezone explosion and sometimes azelf's, which is problematic) or i must cripple lucario in order to take it down. However, cress is a rarely used pokemon that can potentially destroy my team but i can usually work my way around it, putting it into a defensive counter category similar to weavile but less effective. This is especially true considering that if cress is found on a stall or bulky team (often the case) i often times still have metagross to explode on it, unlike in an offensive team with weavile.
Despite the several weaknesses listed, these are either situations rarely seen, such as weavile or cress, or situation easily worked around, such as rotom and dusknoir. Overall, the team is one that is easy to use, very effective, and very consistent. In the end, it allowed me to have an over 120 (i forget the exactly number) win streak at the peak of my usage of this team, and as mentioned above, it still works today despite most PL players knowing the general make of the team.
Last edited by Chumpy on Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
Chumpy- Moderator
- Posts : 12
Join date : 2011-12-03
Re: Favorite Teams
Aquaaa Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:05 pm
Gave up trying to read that, Chumpy. So here's pictures of my favourite team.
Aquaaa- Admin
- Posts : 14
Join date : 2011-11-29
Age : 82
Location : England bro
Re: Favorite Teams
Crona Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:03 pm
I got really bored at one point with my anti-metagame and gimmicky shenanigans, and decided to actually be competitive, as in focused on WINNING. The team idea appeared out of a core I suggested to some noob on PL. I merely suggested Gliscor and Vaporeon be paired together, and then decided to try it myself.
Soon after doing so, I quickly adjusted to the team (after one match, which was surprising). It's won me nearly every battle I paid any attention to, outside actually good stall teams (which only one member can stop a few common stallers).
White Star (Jirachi) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd,-SpAtk)
- Ice Punch
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock
- Trick
This lead... at first, Shuckieee used it. I thought it was interesting but didn't try it. Then Bigelow used it and found it was great as well. At that point, I tried it. This is literally the most successful SR lead I have ever used. Bent on Tricking status users, or setting a quick SR, or just Iron Heading the crap out of the opposing lead, Jirachi has pulled its role off remarkably well. Ice Punch rounded out the coverage of the team, taking care of Dragon Dancers and occasionally netting a KO on Scarfgon by a speed tie or some magical living of EQ. Jirachi basically serves as the meatshield, however, as once it's filled its role of crippling a wall and setting SR, it doesn't really do much else except flinch out anything slower.
Shuren (Rotom-h) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 128 HP/212 Spd/168 SpAtk
Timid nature (+Spd,-Atk)
- Charge Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
I planned to use Spikes on this team and knew I needed a spinblocker. Rotom was my first idea for a second scarfer, but I don't do well with Scarf Rotom. I looked through some sets and decided to do SubCharge. I was also thinking of SubSplit, but decided SubCharge is best, as it lures in Blissey and then gets boosts, and Blissey can't do much without the rare Flamethrower or Ice Beam, which take two hits to take down Substitutes. That's an easy +6, which allows Tbolt to 2HKO most Blisseys. I use Heat form because I've found threatening the Overheat forces switches that will let me have the advantage, and get a free Substitute.
Burai King (Gliscor) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 244 HP/12 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd,-SpAtk)
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Taunt
- Toxic
The first star of the team. I had never used Gliscor before, and had no idea how to work it. Looking at Smogon's sets, I modified the EVs slightly to my own tastes (some obsession with the HP number). Gliscor is one of my scouts for whether Blissey is carrying Thunder Wave or Toxic (Other is Skarmory). Using that knowledge I can easily switch in one of them. It doesn't matter if one of them gets statused (I have Vaporeon use Heal Bell for that exact matter). Gliscor basically shuts down set up for anything slower than it, and loves Sand Veil to death. I carry Toxic for a little stall since this team is a bit focused on it (considering Ice Fang just to get certain dragons <.<). Roost is to just to keep longevity on physical attackers lacking Ice Punch. This is my Fighting resist for when Rotom is down and I lose my immunity. Since Machamps don't usually carry Ice Punch, it also can wall them with impunity.
Friender (Vaporeon) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 236 HP/252 Def/20 SpDef
Bold nature (+Def,-Atk)
- Heal Bell
- Protect
- Surf
- Wish
Vaporeon was also another Pokemon I never used before. I didn't like Protect+Wish because it's so predictable and Gyarados can generally set up in my face. But I decided to try it once more here, and added Heal Bell since Toxic/T-wave/W-o-W constantly annoys me. Passing Wishes around allows this team to actually last very well, since it's so focused on bulk. Protect is always needed to scout, and I need Surf absolutely to not be Taunt-bait. Vaporeon also lures in Starmie, Gengar, and Jolteon, and Starmie destroys all of my team save two (one which is what keeps this team alive).
Greed (Skarmory) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP/8 Spd/252 SpDef
Careful nature (+SpDef,-SpAtk)
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
Skarmory is one of my most used Pokemon, and the only phazer I have ever used. Originally being my physical wall, this time I used Sp. Def Skarmory, allowing it to tank even more hits than before, and vs. Vaporeons it can continue to set up Spikes (unless it's that never-before-seen Specs Vappy). Skarmory basically takes on whatever the rest of the team can't. Whirlwinding everything, Skarmory basically just shuffles what's left, and racks up high damage. Brave Bird hits lots of things harder than you'd expect, and helps me net just a few KOs with Skarmory (Blissey can't touch Skarmory without T-wave or Flamethrower).
Lordgenome (Tyranitar) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd,-SpAtk)
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
Tyranitar serves as the best counter to Starmie, switching in on a Tbolt or Ice Beam easily and Pursuiting or Crunching it, therefore removing the biggest threat to my team. Tyranitar also serves as a check to Zapdos, eating any of its hits and hitting back with a Stone Edge. Jolteon likes to hit a lot of my members hard, and Tyranitar can also KO Jolteon easily (Pursuit will OHKO if it switches, and Jolteon can't even do much with SIGNAL BEAM). Gengar, which threatens if Jirachi already gave away its Scarf, is thrown out by Tyranitar as well. Tyranitar also serves to give Gliscor Sand Veil and rack up even MORE damage for Skarmory. Most of the team is immune to Sandstorm and the two that aren't have Leftovers and one Wishes. Tyranitar is the final key to this team's success.
I'm surprised this team hasn't lost more often than it has, it's pretty well-known on the server. But it's the best team I've ever built, and will probably remain like that for awhile.
Soon after doing so, I quickly adjusted to the team (after one match, which was surprising). It's won me nearly every battle I paid any attention to, outside actually good stall teams (which only one member can stop a few common stallers).
White Star (Jirachi) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd,-SpAtk)
- Ice Punch
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock
- Trick
This lead... at first, Shuckieee used it. I thought it was interesting but didn't try it. Then Bigelow used it and found it was great as well. At that point, I tried it. This is literally the most successful SR lead I have ever used. Bent on Tricking status users, or setting a quick SR, or just Iron Heading the crap out of the opposing lead, Jirachi has pulled its role off remarkably well. Ice Punch rounded out the coverage of the team, taking care of Dragon Dancers and occasionally netting a KO on Scarfgon by a speed tie or some magical living of EQ. Jirachi basically serves as the meatshield, however, as once it's filled its role of crippling a wall and setting SR, it doesn't really do much else except flinch out anything slower.
Shuren (Rotom-h) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 128 HP/212 Spd/168 SpAtk
Timid nature (+Spd,-Atk)
- Charge Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
I planned to use Spikes on this team and knew I needed a spinblocker. Rotom was my first idea for a second scarfer, but I don't do well with Scarf Rotom. I looked through some sets and decided to do SubCharge. I was also thinking of SubSplit, but decided SubCharge is best, as it lures in Blissey and then gets boosts, and Blissey can't do much without the rare Flamethrower or Ice Beam, which take two hits to take down Substitutes. That's an easy +6, which allows Tbolt to 2HKO most Blisseys. I use Heat form because I've found threatening the Overheat forces switches that will let me have the advantage, and get a free Substitute.
Burai King (Gliscor) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 244 HP/12 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd,-SpAtk)
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Taunt
- Toxic
The first star of the team. I had never used Gliscor before, and had no idea how to work it. Looking at Smogon's sets, I modified the EVs slightly to my own tastes (some obsession with the HP number). Gliscor is one of my scouts for whether Blissey is carrying Thunder Wave or Toxic (Other is Skarmory). Using that knowledge I can easily switch in one of them. It doesn't matter if one of them gets statused (I have Vaporeon use Heal Bell for that exact matter). Gliscor basically shuts down set up for anything slower than it, and loves Sand Veil to death. I carry Toxic for a little stall since this team is a bit focused on it (considering Ice Fang just to get certain dragons <.<). Roost is to just to keep longevity on physical attackers lacking Ice Punch. This is my Fighting resist for when Rotom is down and I lose my immunity. Since Machamps don't usually carry Ice Punch, it also can wall them with impunity.
Friender (Vaporeon) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 236 HP/252 Def/20 SpDef
Bold nature (+Def,-Atk)
- Heal Bell
- Protect
- Surf
- Wish
Vaporeon was also another Pokemon I never used before. I didn't like Protect+Wish because it's so predictable and Gyarados can generally set up in my face. But I decided to try it once more here, and added Heal Bell since Toxic/T-wave/W-o-W constantly annoys me. Passing Wishes around allows this team to actually last very well, since it's so focused on bulk. Protect is always needed to scout, and I need Surf absolutely to not be Taunt-bait. Vaporeon also lures in Starmie, Gengar, and Jolteon, and Starmie destroys all of my team save two (one which is what keeps this team alive).
Greed (Skarmory) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP/8 Spd/252 SpDef
Careful nature (+SpDef,-SpAtk)
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
Skarmory is one of my most used Pokemon, and the only phazer I have ever used. Originally being my physical wall, this time I used Sp. Def Skarmory, allowing it to tank even more hits than before, and vs. Vaporeons it can continue to set up Spikes (unless it's that never-before-seen Specs Vappy). Skarmory basically takes on whatever the rest of the team can't. Whirlwinding everything, Skarmory basically just shuffles what's left, and racks up high damage. Brave Bird hits lots of things harder than you'd expect, and helps me net just a few KOs with Skarmory (Blissey can't touch Skarmory without T-wave or Flamethrower).
Lordgenome (Tyranitar) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd,-SpAtk)
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
Tyranitar serves as the best counter to Starmie, switching in on a Tbolt or Ice Beam easily and Pursuiting or Crunching it, therefore removing the biggest threat to my team. Tyranitar also serves as a check to Zapdos, eating any of its hits and hitting back with a Stone Edge. Jolteon likes to hit a lot of my members hard, and Tyranitar can also KO Jolteon easily (Pursuit will OHKO if it switches, and Jolteon can't even do much with SIGNAL BEAM). Gengar, which threatens if Jirachi already gave away its Scarf, is thrown out by Tyranitar as well. Tyranitar also serves to give Gliscor Sand Veil and rack up even MORE damage for Skarmory. Most of the team is immune to Sandstorm and the two that aren't have Leftovers and one Wishes. Tyranitar is the final key to this team's success.
I'm surprised this team hasn't lost more often than it has, it's pretty well-known on the server. But it's the best team I've ever built, and will probably remain like that for awhile.
Crona- Posts : 4
Join date : 2011-12-03
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